More on HP Job Ads

In following up to my last posting, I just went to LinkedIn and plugged in “HP software engineer graduate” and found a number of ads for new and recent graduates. Most of them also have that same “proficiency in English and the local language” requirement, in spite of all being in U.S. locations (Roseville CA, Fremont CA, Houston, Montgomery AL, Vancouver WA).  One of them is again for a position with that same bizarre title, Associate Software Engineer.

I then removed the “HP” part of my search query, and came up with other interesting cases. Here’s one titled, Software Engineer, PhD University Graduate, at YouTube. There are very, very few jobs in industry which really need a PhD, and interestingly, this job’s Minimum Qualifications are pretty generic:

  • PhD in Computer Science or related technical discipline.
  • Large scale systems design experience with knowledge of Unix/Linux.
  • Programming experience in one or more of the following: C/C++, Java, Python.

Even the list of Preferred Qualifications is very generic, except for research experience, and even the latter is not specific either — you have your choice of 10 different areas, including the catchall Systems. Based on my experience, I’d say the odds are high that the employer, YouTube/Google, has a specific foreign student they want to hire, and this ad is just for the purposes of fulfilling green card requirements.

The generic nature of these job requirements puts the lie to the industry’s favorite line that it hires only young people because only new grads know the latest technologies. Well, there is nothing avant garde about any of the technologies lists.

A lot of jobs that came up in that search were for Google. One for Qualcomm was interesting for how NON-generic it was, with the hugest alphabet soup of acronyms for wireless protocols you’ve ever seen. There’s no way a new grad would know more than one or two of them, and even then no very well. Again, this sounds like a green-card camouflage ad to me, and of course Qualcomm has always been one of the most vociferous firms pushing Congress to expand the H-1B cap.

Once again: If you think the main abusers of H-1B are the IT services firms, think again.


13 thoughts on “More on HP Job Ads

  1. Amen.

    While I do not have the PhD and may never have one, I do have the other skills for that job simply because I do have knowledge of Unix/Linux having started back in the days when we ran all SBT Based Accounting Systems on SCO Xenix.

    Furthermore I’ve been told that Python is a lot like FoxPro and the few times I’ve used it, I would have to agree and I know a guy named Art that is an unemployed Vet that could chew both of those requirements up and I’ll bet that neither of us would even be considered for the position.

    Just between us, that is probably close to 70 years experience wasted.

    Imagine how many others have similar stories in IT.

    A million or more I will bet.

    Liked by 1 person

  2. Well, of course it’s not just the IT services firms. They’re only responding to incentives given to them by their clientele businesses.

    Something that cannot be understated in this entire debate is that this is NOT just IT. I work at a manufacturing Fortune 100 company, and at least 20% of salaried employees are H-1B’s or non-native Indians who got some variation of a VISA after college. Sure, it’s 95% of IT. It’s also 50% of engineering and about 10% of the rest of the business. Supply management, whatever.

    Liked by 1 person

  3. I need to add something… I don’t understand how it is ‘just’ 65k additional workers a year. I understand that there are a number of different Visa programs, and there are scammers, and all that, but my company alone must be employing at least 500-1000 of them among all of our local facilities (located in the middle of nowhere). I’ve also interviewed for many other Fortune 100, 500 companies and when I sit in the parking lot for 30 minutes or however long before/after interviews, it’s the same 20-25% of people going in and out of the building are Indian / south Asian.


    • There are visa programs, notably L-1, but you also have to take into account that many of the South Asians you are seeing might be Americans, including those who were formerly H-1Bs who are now naturalized U.S. citizens or green card holders.


    • It’s actually 85,000 per year (20,000 advanced) and it is cumulative.
      While they are issued a visa for 3 years, they can renew it for 3 more years, AND THEN if they have applied for a green card, they can apparently renew it on a year by year basis for up to ??unlimited?? years.

      Figure 850,000 cumulative for 10 years and when the entire industry only has 3.8 million jobs, you can easily see how we could be at the 50% level and this does not count the L-1, B-1, etc.

      I’ve seen some reports showing a million per year, but these graphs are all I’ve been able to substantiate.

      I haven’t found any graphs on the L-1, but the B-1 for 2014 was around 6 1/2 million

      All of the H-1B research I’ve done shows that about 65% of the temporary workers visas go for software type jobs which still leaves 35% for other jobs such as school teachers, doctors, etc.

      Liked by 1 person

      • Good point about distinguishing between the yearly H-1B cap on the one hand, and the number of H-1Bs actually present on the other hand.

        As I said earlier, there is also the matter of all the former H-1Bs who are now Americans. I welcome them as Americans, and regard them as just as entitled to protection as the natives, but the fact is that they are permanent fixtures in the labor market, thus greatly exacerbating the problem. Not their fault of course, but this is the effect of our current policy.

        Liked by 2 people

  4. What I’d like to see, Norm, is a review of techie job ads by company, with a focus on listing the companies which do NOT have a pattern of abuse of H1-B and other visas. Betcha that list would be short, but it would be fun to see which companies, and compare the “party line” in the press about them.

    Visa abusers: “Innovative, open-minded, diverse, global reach, fast-moving, agile, wildly popular”

    Non-abusers: “Stodgy, slow-footed, old-fashioned, provincial, bureaucratic, rudderless”


  5. NCEES has a professional examination in “Software Engineering” as well as “Computer Engineering”. I continue to believe that professional registration should be a requirement when available.


    • That would worse the problem, not solve it. The would-be H-1Bs would make it their business to pass the exam, and they would, even though on a practical their skills are not deep.

      Liked by 1 person

      • Agreed.
        Certification is what got us in this mess.

        The majority of software developers do not have a degree in software, and probably 50% are self taught and don’t have a degree at all.

        When the dept of labor made it a requirement for software types to have a degree, that closed the door on a lot of us and opened the doors to the temporary workers on temporary visas.

        Folks, there is no guarantee that any degree from India is even equivalent to what we have here in America, and I’ve seen pictures of parents climbing the walls of the schools in India to help their kids cheat.

        When we factor in things like proxy interviews (that is where they pay somebody to do their interview for them) and other things, it quickly forces the ethical American out the door.

        Liked by 1 person

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