Diversity vs. Divergence

I have often said that I strongly support immigration for the diversity it adds to the nation. Some, however, counter that once diversity passes some critical mass level, we lose our sense of national unity. This article from the Financial Express, an Indian publication, raises questions in that regard. (As many readers of this blog know, there is often better coverage of H-1B issues in the Indian press than is the case in the U.S.)

The article, headlined “H1B visa: US Congresswoman warns Trump administration against hasty changes,” reports the thoughts on H-1B of Rep. Pramila Jayapal of the Seattle area, herself an Indian immigrant. While I think immigrants’ keeping ties to their home countries is highly desirable, a public servant has responsibility to put the welfare of her fellow Americans as top priority. Unfortunately, Jayapal seems to be skating rather near the boundary in this, in spite of her disclaimer to the contrary (here and below, boldface emphasis added):

She is also hopeful that the Trump administration will continue to prioritise India though there are concerns about the growing process between the US and China and US and Russia but she feels that India “should be right in there”…

Stating that every country has to make sure that it is taking care of its workers, Jayapal, however, said that the H1-B visa programme “is incredibly valuable”. She said that there has been some abuse of H1-B visas and that needed to be addressed.

“But I really do believe that there is a lot of bipartisan support for continuing the H1-B visa programme, perhaps with come changes,” [says] the Chennai-born former pro-immigration advocacy activist.

Stating that she is on the [House] immigration sub-committee that is chaired by Jim Sensenbrenner (Republican, Wisconsin), who is also a part of the visiting delegation, she said: “He (Sensenbrenner) raised the issue of H1-Bs in an internal meeting and you know, I think again that there is a lot of support for an H1-B programme that provides opportunities for Indians to come to the United States, provides opportunities for them to stay and also benefits India and Indian companies.”

Regarding India-US ties following the transition from the Democrats to the Republicans in the White House, the Congresswoman said she hoped that the Trump administration would continue to prioritise India.

Asked about Trump’s policies on South Asia and Indian Americans, she said that there are now five Indian-origin members in the US Congress — Senator Kamala Harris and Representatives Raja Krishnamoorthi, Ro Khanna and Ami Bera, apart from her.

A few weeks ago I reported here on the protests by UC San Diego students from China over the university’s decision to have the Dalai Lama give the commencement address. The UCSD Chancellor, by the way, is also an Indian immigrant. (See a recent New York Times piece on other such actions by Chinese students.) Yet many of those students from China will also eventually become immigrants in the U.S. So, not only do we have immigrants vociferously supporting the policies of their home countries, but also we are now seeing clashes in that regard between competing immigrant groups.

Jayapal says, in the above article,

Asked about China’s criticism of the Congressional delegation’s meeting with the Dalai Lama, she said that “we know that China would not be happy”.

“It has not changed our resolve to really make sure that we address the issue of an autonomous Tibet and the United States I think in a bipartisan way continues to be deeply committed to speaking for autonomy for Tibet and the ability to practise their religion and their culture and their philosophies freely.”

What was also interesting about that UCSD protest is that the Chinese students were portraying the invitation of the Dalai Lama as anti-diversity, in that it was counter to Chinese culture. Of course that was incorrect — the students were raising a political issue, not a cultural one — but Jayapal also seems to have made student-protest-like advocacy of diversity the centerpiece of her view of who her constituents are. Here is an excerpt from a January 20 article in the International Examiner, an Asian-American activist publication:

Early in January, Pramila Jayapal—Seattle’s newly-elected Congressional representative—decided she wouldn’t attend Donald Trump’s inauguration, and would instead meet with immigrants and immigrant advocates in her district. “I recognize that President-elect Trump will be sworn in and he will be the president of this country, whether we like it or not,” she wrote in a January 15 press release. “But I believe my first responsibility is to listen to my constituents and to be with them, through the darkest of times.”

To be sure, I have not seen statements like this from the other Americans in Congress of Indian background whom she mentions above, nor do I expect to. Recent statements by newly-elected Rep. Ro Khanna of Silicon Valley read pretty much like those of any other American politician. That’s unfortunate — Khanna basically takes the Intels Good, Infosyses Bad view — but there is nothing there like Jayapal, whose rhetoric is troubling.

It happens that Seattle is the site of considerable union activity over the years promoting a tightening of H-1B law. I hope Rep. Jayapal will meet with them and take their concerns seriously.

Update: After I first posted this, a reader who described herself as Latina commented

I’m a native New Yorker and got tired of hearing local politicians advocating for Israel, Mexico, Cuba and China over three decades ago. Now that they are advocating for India,

Here are my thoughts in the case of Israel. First, a relatively minor point: Americans who advocate for Israel (Jews, fundamentalist Christians) are not immigrants, so it is a different situation than that of Rep. Jayapal. But much more important from my point of view, if immigrants find that their homeland is under siege, I believe it is fine for them to petition their adopted nation. the U.S., for help. For example, when Russia annexed Crimea in 2014, I had no problem with Crimean immigrants in the U.S. asking the American government for help. To me, the situation with Israel is the same.

That’s entirely different from what Rep. Jayapal is doing, which actively helping Indian companies, the Indian government and would-be economic immigrants from India, especially given that the latter threaten the livelihood of U.S. citizens and permanent residents. Remember, in the 2008 presidential primary campaign, Barack Obama heavily criticized fellow candidate Hillary Clinton for joking to a Indian-American group that she is “the senator from Punjab.” Jayapal has been saying things along those lines, and she’s not joking.


40 thoughts on “Diversity vs. Divergence

  1. This is a good example of what’s been driving me to continue down the path of moving my company to Australia.

    I’ve been working on this for a year and a half. It won’t be easy, but it’s the right decision.

    We’re going to do everything possible to keep our team in the USA onboard. But several have expressed interest in emigrating to Oz.

    The tide has turned. America’s government is “Everybody First”, Trump included.


  2. “While I think immigrants’ keeping ties to their home countries is highly desirable, a public servant has responsibility to put the welfare of her fellow Americans as top priority”

    I appreciate your blog (and of course teaching CS to the young!) but I fundamentally disagree on the ‘keeping ties’ bit (of course agree on the public servant duty).

    I am a combat veteran — (but not a hero — do your duty and keep your head low :)) I have been personally insulted for having a military tattoo — by H-1Bs — when leaving for a workout at the end of the day (meaning my professional clothing hid any tattoos but my workout gear did not).

    Sounds crazy — I would have thought so a couple of years ago — but my friends and family know I am serious and I have no problem informing them of the issues here. I’m of course not the only one and nowadays due to easy communication everyone who experiences this stuff can let people know.

    Things are getting ugly in Silicon Valley and I’ll be blunt: the attitude of many immigrants — focused on their own ethnic group and national issues — is responsible for much of it. I do not fault them at a personal level for that — human nature and all — but I’m damn tired of Americans being expected to take up the slack or somehow be less tribal.

    I understand you may not publish this but this is assuredly another data point for you to consider.

    Liked by 1 person

      • It is natural (and I think good) for immigrants to think fondly of their homeland so I guess at the end of the day I more agree than disagree with you about keeping ties. However, yes, beyond a certain limit integration becomes a lot less likely.

        In general I think most policy analysts (and politicians) take the easy way out: limit discussions of the impact of immigration to economic effects only. That’s of course extremely crucial but at the same time it has pernicious effects over the long run because everyone then starts to view America solely as an economic unit or market to be expanded into, not a country with an existing culture and certain citizenship concepts. (I do claim a recognizable American culture exists but I am not saying it is static; it gradually changes over time as new groups are added.)

        I haven’t looked through your archives but I remember being shocked three years ago when AB 1401 (2013) [Legal non-citizens on juries] went all the way to Jerry Brown’s desk, where he was the voice of reason and vetoed it. Since corporations and universities sponsor many newcomers they could potentially have had a large roll in determining what the jury pool looked like. And yes, many would be better educated (or smarter) than a potential local juror — but then so what?

        It seemed like just another way to slowly erode away the concept of citizenship to that of groups of consumers/workers that just happen to reside in the same geographical area.

        Regardless, since California is the desired destination for many I wonder if the state government will get even more dysfunctional as various factions fight for control of educational policy and content, etc.

        Liked by 1 person

        • I strongly agree with you that immigration policy should take much more than economics into account. The culture issue is very tricky, though, with subtleties that I don’t think have been discussed or even privately considered.

          As you note, culture evolves, and most of us would probably say it’s for the better. I remember watching a TV interview of people on the street long ago when I was a kid, and the subject of tacos came up somehow. The woman being interviewed pronounced it TAY-co, with a questioning lilt in her voice, indicating that she knew better but didn’t want to look like she was “putting on airs” with her sophistication. 🙂 Today everyone takes it for granted. One might cite Chinese and Yiddish words and phrases working their way into American English, and so on.

          However, I submit even the most doctrinaire liberals/progressives would feel uncomfortable if their neighborhoods, schools, workplaces and so on were to become more than x% Chinese immigrant or x% Israeli immigrant or x% Sikh immigrant etc. So even the liberals/progressives are xenophobic, even if they won’t admit it even to themselves. The value of x may vary from one person to another, but it is less than 100 — a lot less — for everyone.

          The same holds for Trump’s attempts to temporarily ban travel to the U.S. from “the seven countries.” All those sanctimonious people who say this is unconstitutional would sing a different tune if there were to be y terrorist attacks within the U.S. per year, for some value of y.

          I’m writing this in a cafe’, and at a nearby table there are some young people, blaming their problems on the “crappy” schools they attended. Well, kids of Chinese immigrants do quite well at those schools, thank you, and it is a direct result of Chinese culture, thus a positive impact on the U.S. On the other hand, high schools with a high percentage of children of Chinese immigrants can be “Tiger Mom chambers of horrors,” which I argue is extremely detrimental to the kids in particular and our education system in general.

          I hope you didn’t mean it when you hypothesized a positive effect on jury selection. I am sure there is no such correlation in general, and in the case of well-educated immigrants I am often appalled at their lack of basic knowledge. I have a faculty colleague, 30 years in the U.S. and highly interested in U.S. politics, yet he thought that of California’s two U.S. senators, one represents northern California and the other represents southern California.


        • Culture is a whole additional layer of ignored unmanaged complexity, at best, damaging at worst.
          – At work,
          Turf wars – Russians only hired/project receptive to Russians, Pols w/Pols, Chinese w/Chinese, Indian w/Indian. Mr., who came as H-1B, says he saw worse: the manager would only hire young male Indian who he knew their parents back in India, manager would only hire young Indian male with the same last name, manager required each young hire had to come from a country he hadn’t an employee from.
          Turf wars – collection from same country holding conversations in foreign language, shutting out rest of staff.
          Subservience. Manager’s literal instruction: “Think of me as your Russian general.” Absolute obedience, absolute compliance, right or wrong. Upper management requested constructive criticism, H-1B response re: critiquing management, “There is no such thing.”. Indian H-1b coworker response to my question re: not taking up an issue with our H-1B manager, “He doesn’t talk to us like he talks to you.”.
          Don’t tell/resolve. No matter what fraud, criminal, incompetence, etc. observed by H-1B coworker, don’t tell/don’t take it up with them. Because of the density of H-1B work community, I found this particularly annoying as the ethical would dump the issue(s) on my lap.
          The extremely strong imported cultural work ethic above drove one company I worked for to bankruptcy.
          – In community, local and national,
          Vast immigration from the same country/region reconvene into sub-communities, which take them WAY longer to assimilate, if ever. It’s been a huge problem for Europe and India – as it has lead to demanding culture and law from their nation of origin. Any US discussion of this has (naively, absurdly) solely been discussion of food.
          Mr. asks a lot of questions, and so we spend quite a bit of time on it. Urban immigrant neighborhoods in the US have flipped constantly, depending on the nearby/nearest grocery store. No easy access to food, they move away. What’s culturally unique in this influx variant, suburban convening of legal white collar and urban and rural convening of illegal blue collar. Brutal on housing affordability, in all three domains. Downward pressure on income, upward pressure on living expenses, in 360 degrees of livability in the US. Harshest impact on existing US minorities. It works for no one but the 1%, by design.


      • Norm, I hope you realize H-1Bs do think they came on a visa because they are special/special skilled. It’s a long time before they realize, no, Bachelors don’t work for min wage (when they where on an F1), and their H-1B $60K was going rate for a STEM new grad … 20 years ago.


    • SXBXWX,

      Thank you for your service. Every vet is a hero! It takes a certain kind of individual to volunteer to serve and to survive the demands placed on his/her mind and body. The incredible courage and sacrifices of our service members past and present leave me speechless.

      The treatment of our vets is a national disgrace. As long as there is a homeless vet there should be no low income housing given to a foreign national; the vet should immediately go to the front of the line. Even in my community which is not near a military base, homeless vets are a problem. There are too few services for mental health issues and pet friendly shelters (I am a big believer that a pet does much for a person’s mental health.) There is the NIMBY attitude whenever there is housing or food outreach.

      There are immigrants who choose to serve and those who have assisted American troops abroad and now are able to immigrate; they have earned the benefits accorded them because of their service. They are more committed to the US than some native born citizens.

      I am angry that our vets are passed over for jobs which are given to foreign nationals who have done nothing for the US. Some of a vets greatest accomplishments cannot be listed on a resume. I am tired of US workers being maligned by representatives of foreign governments in their news media. I am also tired of American students’ accomplishments being claimed b y other nations simply because of those students’ heritage. India especially does this. India has not contributed to the student’s education or support and deserves no credit for the student’s accomplishments.

      You have earned the right to be angry at those who chose to come to the US yet disparage those who protect its interests.

      {{{Military Mom}}}

      Liked by 1 person

      • Thank you for your kind words Cathy. I actually regret mentioning it now because veterans are used as a political football between the two major parties regarding the issues you mentioned: housing, medical care, jobs, etc. Problems that are serious but I think very distinct from the H-1B or immigration issues. (The Post 9/11 GI Bill has helped many veterans — the best guy in my CS graduating class served in Afghanistan.)

        For a less emotion post from me: my co-workers have every right to criticize Americans. It just illustrates a more general process:

        1) As a society we grant extraordinary rights to anyone who sets foot on our soil in any manner: tourist, illegal immigrant, technical worker, student. I don’t just mean legal rights I mean ‘social’ rights: political leaders such as Kevin de Leon actually defend illegal immigrants stealing identities from citizens in the interests of the greater good. Jayapal is another example — to be fair she is not defending illegal activity however. These are incredibly powerful signaling mechanisms to both potential immigrants — legal or not — and citizens on where they stand in the political hierarchy.
        2) Most countries with birthright citizenship are in the western hemisphere and of those only two are really desirable destinations for immigration: Canada and the US.
        3) Incoming groups know this.
        4) Using 1) and 2) many immigrant groups can install their own representatives in government or at least have PACs.
        5) Go back to 1 and repeat.

        Birthright citizenship will never change, and even if it did and nothing else changed, we’d end up like some western European country with its own ugly assimilation issues (and ‘our’ local students with foreign parents really would stay ‘their’ students).

        So my view is that if an individual manages to physically get to the US and manage to hang on for just a little while, there is an enormously high probability he/she will either become an American citizen or the parent of an American citizen.

        Then there’s Trump. I swear that guy is the anti-Christ of Silicon Valley and I know everyone I work with is here legally. I actually do think he is ‘erratic’ but not nearly as stupid as others think. Wall or not, restricting physical entry into the US (whether by a physical wall or strict enforcement of visas) is about the only way to restrict immigration levels in a run country like the US.

        And that scares many people because it just may be effective.

        Liked by 1 person

    • Indians and Chinese have a hugely tribal attitude in which the national group is upheld and supported. In a previous position, there were a number of Chinese. Invariably, after 1 year of collaborative work, they would reach out across campus to other Chinese. After 2-3 years, they were working exclusively with Chinese. I came in one Saturday. I was surprised to see all the Chinese, and no non-Chinese, to be in the Library. They were all participating in a secret Chinese reading group discussing research issues. No one else knew about this, and the Chair, an Indian, did nothing about it.


      • Everyone who has studied at a university in the U.S. in the last 20 years has seen this. And I don’t like it anymore than you do. However, there is another side to the story.

        Some of the Chinese foreign students, maybe many, would actually like to mix more with the Americans. But most are too shy to do so, and some who have tried to do so have found that the culture gap is just too wide, and in some cases they have actually been rebuffed.

        As to that reading group you encountered, I don’t think there was anything sinister in it.


    • Re: ethnic groups/tribal
      Almost 20 years ago, when my tech company was transitioning all staff to H-1B, the arguing between them in their cubes in my vicinity was if next hire was going to be Chinese born Chinese, American born Chinese, Northern Indian or Southern Indian. In a single year, almost all US labor had been replaced.
      It especially pi##ed me off in the last round of campaigns when the Ds slung racist and xenophobe at anyone who’s for limiting immigration. Apparently it is CLEARLY okay to discriminate against citizens. And there is nothing “diverse” about ousting citizen labor for mainly Indian immigrants.


        • First, American-born Chinese aren’t Chinese.
          Second, I question your sole concern with that post, Chinese-American.
          Third, I don’t “treat” anyone differently than anyone else, having worked with a huge variety of citizens, immigrants and “temporary” visa’d workers. Furthermore, I actively intercede when I see any treated differently at work – because I have no intention of blind-eye imported or native defective work ethic, nor denigration of an immigrant over accents, for example.
          And lastly, you’re skirting the comment topic, racist hiring criteria at work, in this case, must be asian/asian descent.


          • Your statement, “American-born Chinese aren’t Chinese,” has a logical inconsistency, doesn’t it? 🙂 At any rate, I wanted to make sure you do consider Americans of Chinese descent Americans, which you now seem to be confirming. As to the issue of ethnicity X favoring ethnicity X in hiring, yes, I’ve talked about this many times over the years.


  3. “My constituents” is an interesting term. Some years ago, Sen. Slade Gorton from WA was known as “the Senator from Microsoft” because of his steadfast obedience to the Bill Gates agenda. Interestingly, he lost re-election in 2000. Apparently, his view of “constituents” was too narrow. I suspect we are seeing a similar situation here, with vociferous and well-funded ethnic interest groups becoming the new “constituency” for many politicians.


    • If I recall correctly, Washington has another person in Congress who is literally from Microsoft, or some other firm in the Seattle tech industry. Anyone know the details?


      • Norm, you’re referring to the junior Senate from Washington, Maria Cantwell. She was a VP of marketing at RealNetworks, from 1995 to 1999, apparently recruited by company co-founder Rob Glaser ex- Microsoft Real did their IPO in 1997 and she cashed in from that event. I’ve seen Cantwell also referred to as “the Senator from Microsoft”, I guess inheriting that title from the Republican Gorton, who she defeated in the 2000 Senate race. Cantwell also at times referred to as the Senator from Hi-Tech, which is absurd. She was elected to the US. House of Representatives in 1992, but landed at RealNetworks after losing her House seat in the Republican wave election of 1994. But before landing in Congress she was in the Washington State House of Representatives, from 1986 to 1992. In short she is a career politician who traded on public service to cash in from the private sector. This story repeated many times by both Republican and Democratic politicians and connected staff.


      • Susan Del Bene is US Congress rep for parts of the area East of Seattle near the Microsoft mother ship.
        She is a Microsoft alum and never met an H1B she didn’t like.

        Lots of folks like her and Cantwell in the Seattle area, who were in the right place at the right time for Microsoft (or RealNetworks or…), made a bundle, and believe the MS, RN, etc. were successful because of them and their policies are right and true.


  4. Her attitude is troubling. What is different about the new immigrants verses the old (pre 1960s or so) is that the old immigrants adopted the US as their country 100% while the newer ones retain a loyalty to the one in which they were born. Another difference of old verses many of the new immigrants from South Asia and the Middle East is that old immigrants were generally the displaced, outcasts, “the people from nowhere” while the new immigrants are the privileged, educated, elites.

    The immigrants most like the older ones have no way to immigrate because of the laws favoring family reunification and skilled, educated workers. Even the Diversity Visa has a skills requirement. “Comprehensive immigration reform” ignores this disparity in the law and will do nothing, IMO, to address the illegal immigration of low skilled workers. These are the people most like the “old” immigrants.

    I find that US born children of the new immigrants also retain a loyalty to their ancestral homeland. I have even found that some of the children are more tied to their parent’s country of birth which happens to be hostile to the US. Their father shows a definite preference for hiring people from his native country; he once told me that he could not go back to his home country because of their mandatory military service and that was his reason for staying in the US after completing his education. I doubt that the children would ever serve in the military and defend the US. They are a risk for radicalization due to their heritage.

    While my immigrant grandmother (late 1900s) did not serve in the military, her brother served in both WW1 and WW2; my mothers 3 older brothers all served in WW2, Continuing my family’s service had my father serving during the Korean War, sister during Vietnam, and son during the first Iraq war and beyond. I remember crawling out of my elementary school because they were rioting in the adjacent area and someone was shot on our school grounds while my father was stationed abroad. Daughter’s military husband has been gone 8 of the last 12 months. She is on her own with 3 kids, 2 dogs, a house in need of repairs,… with no family nearby to help out. Add to that the stress of only knowing whether her DH will come home safe and sound is when he shows up. Whether you agree with the cause, you must appreciate the sacrifices of those who protect us. Service – military, law enforcement and homeland security – is a choice made willingly and shows a love of country above and beyond.

    I am tired of new immigrants and guest workers complaining that they cannot bring their relatives to live or visit. Just as my family members choose to serve even though they will be separated from their family, guest workers and new immigrant choose to come to the US to live. If they wanted to be with family, they can go home. So the whiny guest workers and voluntary immigrants get no sympathy from me.

    What is also frustrating is that veterans are forced to compete with guest workers; they are discriminated against both due to the fact they are vets and some people discriminate against people because they disagree with the politics and because immigrants are affirmative action minorities even though the American is equally or better qualified than the guest worker/immigrant.

    I don’t care two hoots (I did not want Norm to have to censor my post 🙂 that the H-1B program benefits Indian workers, India, and Indian companies; these reasons alone prove why it is a problem. I care that the H-1B program and family reunification hurts Americans, American, and American companies(especially small businesses). There is no reason to prioritize our national relationship with India. What does that do for us? How has India responded to the crises in the Middle East – especially Syria? They, as well as the US, have internal problems they have not yet solved. Not only are their problem political but societal. Their H-1B workers could effect more important changes at home. We need to prioritize national relationships with countries best able to effect peace around the world; if that is Russia and China and Saudi Arabia, so be it.

    Rep. Jayapal has her Indian heritage. My grandchildren are Scottish, Irish, English, Welsh, German, Rusyn (different from Russian), Hungarian/Czech, Italian-American; the family has no loyalty to another country even though we have relatives elsewhere. When African-Americans complain about their slave heritage, we can match that too as one ancestor was kidnapped off the streets of London and brought to the New World and sold as a slave. Once he earned his freedom, he chose to remain rather than return to England which would have been easy since he was a minor royal with the title of Lord.

    My experiences and ancestry are not unique; many have made far greater sacrifices for this country. Why should we not put America first and hire Americans first. Our elected representatives must put US political and economic interests first. Based on her comments, I doubt she does or would in the event of conflict or disagreements with India. Rep Jayapal might change her tune and loyalty if she had family serving in the US military or dealing with criminal immigrants and guest workers. I hope her constituents vote her out now that her true colors are obvious, but given she is from Seattle, I doubt they will. The workers there have a lot to lose with her support of importing Indian workers to take their jobs. They elected her; it is a shame all the rest of the US has to deal with the results of her misplaced loyalty.


    • You speak of liberal Seattle, yet the voters in her district (in which she did not live) could have elected her liberal, Latino opponent. From what I can see from news accounts, she won by having really good liberal connections (Bernie Sanders, Gloria Steinem) and an enthusiastic national network of wealthy Indian-American contributors. Her election was to a large extent “engineered.” This is similar to the election to the Senate of Kamala Harris (also partly of Indian descent) here in California last year; she had been building up support by key players for a couple of years, unlike her opponent Loretta Sanchez. (I voted for Sanchez, but I am OK with Harris.)


    • It is troubling indeed. Giving her the title of ‘Representative’ is a farce. She is not representing the American workers in her district but rather the globalists & American corporations not only of that district but in the country, as well as ‘India Inc’ – Indian corporations and Indian-American business owners whose businesses rely on cheap foreign labor as their business model. Basically, she is more of a lobbyist or a ‘political plant’.


  5. Dr. Matloff,

    We’ve all known that this claim of bringing in foreign workers for diversity is BS. Immigrants who are now US citizens or GC holders are getting passed over for these jobs which are instead given to these foreign ‘non-immigrant’ workers.

    The USA is the most diverse country in the world. Yes, one can go to Toronto, London or Sydney and see diversity but the USA has tens of millions more immigrants in its citizen population.

    If these companies really wanted diversity, how about hiring African-Americans, Hispanic-Americans and Asian-Americans?

    There are a lot of older US citizen Indian-Americans who are finding it hard to get hired. I met one recently – an engineer at that – past 40 years of age. He said that he’s getting the brush-off, ignored or that these jobs are paying 40-60% what the normal salary would be. Are these people saying that an Indian in India is more talented that older US citizen Indian-Americans?

    And this tech talent or STEM worker shortage is also BS. One doesn’t need a CS degree to do a lot of these ‘tech’ jobs. I myself do not have a CS degree and know that coding bootcamps and workshops can prepare & qualify people to do these jobs.

    I also met a younger Indian here on the F1 student visa studying on his Master’s. He was shopping himself around to companies/employers. I came to the realization that F1 visa holders are not ‘tethered’ – the OPT allows them to choose employers and then change them/be mobile. He also said he can work for 5 years – 2 while in school and 3 post-completion. I researched this and found out that they are allowed to work pre-completion but only part time while class is in session and pre-completion work is deducted from post-completion work allowed.

    It really does look like the F1 visa is more dangerous to American workers. It’s a much higher number per year – almost double that of the H1-B – and less restrictions. A foreign worker who didn’t win the H1-B lottery applies to a school, easily gets an F1 visa, much easier than the H1-B. And these can be more senior workers going for a Master’s or PhD. At any one moment, there can be 450K or more foreign workers working here in the US on the F1 OPT.


    • Keep in mind that I said the diversity aspect is appealing to ME. I agree that corporate America is abusing the notion to justify hiring H-1Bs.

      OPT is indeed a big problem. What is common now, by the way, is that a company like, say, Google, will hire an F-1, then send her to work at a foreign subsidiary, then bring her back after a year on an L-1 visa. Yet as long as even the critics of H-1B promote the Intels Good, Infosyses Bad notion, OPT simply won’t be addressed.


    • I haven also been hearing a lot from older Americans, and even the H-1B’s that were born in India.

      They encourage what I am doing and in some cases, supply me with links to articles, etc. because they too are being destroyed by this massive flood of young blood coming from India for the most part..

      As for the tech shortage, those of us that have worked in software for decades know that the bulk of development work is the add, change, and delete screens.

      To help the journalists understand how easy the work is, and why it does not require the best and brightest, I am starting a new video series titled Real World Programming.

      The first video shows how to load the PERM spreadsheet into SQL Server so that they will have the ability to easily query the data using techniques that they can learn on w3schools.


    • First, there is nothing diverse about solely H-1B, mainly men, mainly young, mainly Indian.
      Second, the visa had/has nothing to do with diversity.
      “Diverse” is intentional diversion from the actual topic – there is no actual need for this. Weaponized against those who reject the need argument, they use “xenophobe” and “racist”.


  6. In the early 90’s, my contracting company at that time said they were in the top 100 minority owned US firms. Thinking our CEO was black or Hispanic I was shocked to find he was an Indian immigrant.

    On another blog, someone posted that a large percentage of the minority SBA loans were being obtained by South Asians. Don’t know if this is true but from personal experience, most franchises I’ve been to have been owned by South Asians.

    The minority preference laws were originally intended to help poor blacks and Hispanics who have a historical record of discrimination.

    We shouldn’t be helping the rich and upper-middle class from other countries. I hope someday that the minority activists in the country wake up to that fact. In fact, these laws should be changed to help the poor, including whites, and not just minorities.


    • Yes, I’ve heard the same thing, many times.

      There are many ways in which policy intended to help natives in need gets abused by immigrants. The SSI welfare program for the elderly is another example.


  7. I’m a native New Yorker and got tired of hearing local politicians advocating for Israel, Mexico, Cuba and China over three decades ago. Now that they are advocating for India, I’m suppose to be surprised they put their ethnicity first over their patriotism. Oh, I forgot, patriotism is some right wing, gun nut, flyover country ideology.

    Liked by 1 person

    • There is nothing “patriotic”, “nativist” or “protectionist” about the government we pay for being responsible and accountable to its citizens – all of them.


    • I see you updated your article to quote part of my comment. While you may see Israelis as different from other immigrant groups, I do not. I got to see and work with them in New York over many years. They have a bigger sense of entitlement than other immigrant groups in NY because they are better represented in local government, by other Jews.

      Since you singled them out, I will too. It was not uncommon to see Israelis receiving social services, welfare, for their families while working for Jewish businesses under the table. It was not uncommon for Jewish religious organizations to reserve housing and other entitlements for them, in the nicer parts of the city. They very very often have access to city services that black and Latino non immigrants(citizens) are denied.

      This is just a partial list of why I think that Israelis are just like the Indians or Chinese immigrants. They consume services, jobs, and opportunities that should be reserved for the native born. You may think they are more entitled to them than other immigrants, but I think none of them are entitled to be here.


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